"Whatever kind of device or barrier or policy to secure the border, that's necessary to secure the border, then do it."

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People's experiences are all different, and you don't know what the person experienced. They know, but you don't, so I think it's important to listen carefully to what a person has to say. And not to force them into any direction at all but simply to model what you've experienced, model it and also be what I call a Listening Presence. If you're really listening, then some of the barriers can dissolve or change.

— Pauline Oliveros